SSC and Guild Drama

Today I wanted to share an old story about my guild.  At the time these events were very upsetting for all of us. I was a holy priest raiding in Dies Irae which was one of my very first guilds in WoW and we held the #2 spot on the server in terms of progression.  When you are not quite the best but still have a lot of great players, it makes you a target for sniping members and attacks on your team’s moral.  I will tell you the story from our perspective, since this reporter didn’t seek out quotes from both guilds involved and the only quote used was a whisper of a guild member that was not representative of our guild as a whole.

So here is the story from our perspective:  Clockwise was a guild lead by the brother of a Nightmares Asylum member who started a Karazhan pug with around 3 people from Clockwise and at least 3 from Dies Irae.  They killed a couple of the early bosses in the raid instance and then the pug raid ended.  Using the general pug rules, a couple guys from Dies Irae who were part of the pug decided to continue the pug raid.  Later that night the Clockwise guys started another group to continue the raid as well.  When they attempted to zone in, they could not since there was the max amount of player in the raid for that specific raid ID.  Of course the perceived “stealing” of the raid ID was not done intentionally or with malice.  And I’m sure you can decide for yourself if the raid belongs to only the raid leader?  Or does it belong to each and every person who participated?  I’ll let you decide.  I can’t say what was said between the Clockwise member and my guildie because I can’t view their whisper history but it sounded like the Clockwise leader was flipping out and because of his attitude, the players that were already in the raid decided to just continue and finish the raid.

At this point in time raids were assigned a unique ID number which locked you to the progress of the players that are saved.  If you were saved to different raid IDs you could not play together.  This feature has since been been changed to allow any player to join and leave any raid that they wish.

What happened next was a bizarre turn for our guild.  We were working on the last boss in SSC and before our scheduled raid time, Nightmares Asylum created a raid group and whispered one of our raiders to help summon someone.  Him being a nice guy said “sure invite” when he was expecting to join a party of 2 or 3 players he instead saw a full raid group and was promoted to leader which allowed Nightmares Asylum to zone in under our raid ID.  They went on to kill the boss that we were working on.  It was a shitty thing to do and I’m still mad about it ten years later.

I wanted to save the contents of this post just in case it ever gets purged, the original post can be found here.

DI Vashj

Today’s story comes from the realm of Smolderthorn, home of one of the U.S.’s top Horde guilds, Nightmares Asylum (obligatory note: Blizzard apparently doesn’t let you use apostrophes in guild names.)

Our tale begins in Karazhan this weekend, where the guild Clockwise was just learning the instance. They didn’t have enough people for a full group, so they invited in some puggers to help them down some bosses. Unfortunately, they weren’t able to kill too many bosses, so they left half of the instance for the next day. One of their puggers, who was a member of the medium-level guild Dies Irae, invited in some of his guildmates’ alts to clear the rest. Dies Irae claimed they didn’t know it was another guild’s instance at first, but only decided to kill Prince after Clockwise’s guild leader got angry at them and told them to get the bleep out. Whatever the cause, no one disputes that it ended with Dies Irae’s alts clearing Karazhan on Clockwise’s raid ID.

Now it gets interesting. Apparently Nightmares Asylum decided it was time to stand up for the little guy and get Dies Irae back. So Monday night, they asked one of Dies Irae’s members to help them on a quest. Suddenly, the DI member was promoted to leader and kicked out of the group as Nightmares Asylum members ran inside their Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern instances. (SSC, by the way, was completely clear except for Lady Vashj, who Dies Irae was planning on working on — Nightmares Asylum apparently no longer runs SSC.) Nightmares Asylum then proceeded to kill Vashj, made a screenshot of her dead with their raid members forming the letters DI, and — this is the best part — tracked down various Dies Irae members and disenchanted the Vashj loot they would have gotten in front of them. Man, I feel bad for that rogue who watched the Fang of Vashj dissolve. DI claimed not to care, since it “gave them another day to PVP”, but the attempts to report Nightmares Asylum say otherwise.

So who’s in the wrong here? We don’t know the full situation, but both sides have given their account. Dies Irae says they didn’t intentionally steal the Kara ID and only cleared it after being provoked by the other guild’s leader, while Nightmares Asylum was malicious in their thievery. Nightmares Asylum defends their actions as karma and standing up for the little guy, and it’s pretty obvious they didn’t do it to get the phat loots. Ethically, they’re both probably wrong, since stealing raid IDs is pretty nasty, but I can’t help but feel a soft spot for Nightmares Asylum after this. They may have done a vicious, petty thing, but they did it with style.

What do you think about this situation? Should there be a way to remedy the “stealing” of raid IDs, or should people just be careful who they accept raid invites from?

8 thoughts on “SSC and Guild Drama

  1. I am sure if you gathered a handful of guild leaders together to sit around a round table to have a few drinks and talk about our horror stories we would probably be there for days. I recall those days and the nightmare of telling people do not pug and mess up our raid progress.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. I have a tale concerning a, I won’t mention site, that I have considered writing many times, but in the end realize while it may be a relief to me to talk about it, it really wouldn’t change things, and may just make things worse.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Stumbled on this post at random while searching for something related to the upcoming classic servers. This brings back some memories – we must have played together at some point. I raided with Viscera in Satori throughout much of BC and if I recall correctly he was part of this DI group. In fact, I think there were several members of DI that played with us after this SSC drama deflated their progression aspirations and they looked for a more casual pace.

    I also remember the seemingly round-the-clock spam of the Clockwise GM (was it Painkiller?) in trade chat – that guy was annoying. The server community started getting increasingly toxic around this time, especially the raiding community, and a couple of us took the free realm transfers Blizzard offered at the beginning of 2008 to ease congestion on high pop realms like Smolderthorn.

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      1. I played an orc shaman named Onwuka.

        Viscera (undead rogue) was a decent guy, but he was pretty angry about the DI vs NA drama. We were a small guild and he effectively killed it when he (without telling anyone) used the group to gear a holy paladin alt and then immediately left for a more progressed guild on another server.

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  3. How weird to stumble upon this years and years later. Interesting stroll down memory lane.

    I played Viscera (the undead rogue) and built DI from the raiders in Satori, which I started with Lexia and Dismember, a married mage/priest team wayyyyy back in Vanilla on Smolderthorn. I remember both Mandia and Onwuka (the names, not the players) but I don’t recall if you were in either of my guilds.

    I wasn’t around for the NA/DI drama – that was after I left DI because some Kara issues, which I’ll explain from my side now. Disclaimer: this is how I experienced it and others might have other opinions about my actions (or inaction, in some cases) so I’ll just leave it and that without placing blame.

    Satori started as a few friends picking up people to do 5 mans with. We built that in Vanilla into a guild that did okay in MC but was never pushing content. Half of our raid didn’t care much for min/maxing and just showed up to earn DKP and spend it on the few drops we saw. I ended up splitting the guild into Satori, a casual guild that would just kinda putz around and do fun stuff, and Dies Irae, a guild that I was going to push and build to try to contend with server firsts, etc. We had a lot of people get mad they weren’t brought to DI with the “raiders” but we also had some buckle down and really improve their gear/playing and “make the team” so to speak.

    After 40m content was going away, we split our original pushing raid team into an A team and a B team of 10 “starters” with 5 “backups” for encounters that called for different comps. The goal to push 2 teams through Kara to build gear for the 25 man raids. Unfortunately, I fucked up by making the groups imbalanced. The A team was the more geared group and they progressed fast through Kara. The B team didn’t do as well and stalled a few times. When the A team wanted to start hitting up SSC, the B team wanted to do it as a guild but they were really undergeared. Some from the A team worked with them with alts, etc, but it never really came together and people started getting frustrated. That’s when drama in officer chat/forum started up with people wanting to promote a few toxic members to officer, then some petty infighting over whether or not we’d PUG with other guilds just to get clears and gears. I had been laid off from my job since I couldn’t move to Seattle, I effectively played 12-13 hours a day, grinding mats, recruiting, doing pugs, etc and burnout with all of the Kara/SSC push hit me hard. I was spending more time hiding from the guild on my alts, leveling them up and just fucking around in BGs than I was actually “leading” the guild. Rather than fight for something I’d spent 5-6 years building, I just left and let the more toxic, childish members take it over. I honestly only remember one person’s name (which I won’t mention here) but he was a troll rogue. There was some personal drama as well that I’d rather not get into but we ended up losing a few really solid, more mature, raiders and it hurt. DI stayed around and immediately began “rebuilding” as it wasn’t hard to replace a rogue but it did require replacing a solid healer and a tank as well.

    By the time the NA/DI/SSC nonsense went down, I’d already taken a crappily geared paladin that I geared up through PUGs/etc to another server. My first raid with them was TK and I was really undergeared but I ended up getting a bunch of upgrades. I heard about the drama on WoW sites, ironically enough. Now, in searching for some old videos someone had uploaded of me getting Thunderfury on my rogue, I stumble across this and get the nostalgia.

    I was young and stupid when I was pushing DI and yelling at kids in raid chat or kicking people for doing dumb shit. I took it way more seriously than I should have because I dumped a ton of real money into the game with multiple accounts and buying gold so I could buy mats for the guild (and for me). I never did anything underhanded or shady when it came to leaving DI and gearing my alts to take to another server. I got accused of all kinds of stupid shit like stealing TF for myself from our main tank to stealing gold and mats from the guild bank but I did none of it and just let the fools talk. I’m still friends with the people I started Satori with and it’s been fun watching their kids grow up from babies I’d hear in raids to teenagers getting ready to leave for college.

    I miss the camaraderie of vanilla wow and clearing those old 5 mans and I’m pretty sure no one will ever see this post. But, if they do, that’s what happened. At least from my perspective. I would’ve kicked anyone trying to jank around with stealing raid IDs and shit like that.

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    1. Viscera! I remember you but I interacted way more with Dis and Lexia. I also think I came in right before the guild was remade with raiding in mind and I remember a bit of the “left behind” feelings and I’m pretty sure I was in the bad Kara group, and that’s ok because it was still fun (rose colored glasses)

      This story of dealing with 2 raid groups in Kara is so similar to what I dealt with in Wildstar. It’s crappy design that leads to some of the crap we had to deal with.

      Anyway, thank you for all that you did since the events that lead to the rise and fall of DI is what introduced me to my, now husband. Leading a guild is super hard and you can never please everyone. I hope that you are doing well and enjoying your life. I’m so glad you took the time to post this.

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